Freelancer and Employee

[stereo]

Hi, I am not sure if i am posting to the correct group, please let me know and will move it if its not related here.

So, I would like to ask if someone knows about the following:

I am already employed in a company working 40 hours per week. I would like to start working as a freelancer too. My company has agreed but says I can work in total no more than 45-50 hours weekly due to the Working Hours Act. 

When I search about it it says that it does not apply to freelancers, only to employed.

So now I am a bit confused, has anyone been in a similar position? Can I work max 45-50 hours weekly, which means 15-20 hours as a freelancer?

 

PS. I am probably not going to work more than that, but I would like your input to be sure on what my obligations are. Thank you in advance

21 augustus 2023 aangepast door Hans van den Bergh
Typo in titel

[Joost Rietveld]

Hi Stereo

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Based on your question the number of hours isn't the issue. The issue is that, by Dutch law, if you end an employment and are hired back as a freelancer by the former employer within six months, the employment simply is continued. You will not be considered a freelancer for tax and social security purposes.

[UwJurist]

1 uur geleden, stereo zei:

So now I am a bit confused, has anyone been in a similar position? Can I work max 45-50 hours weekly, which means 15-20 hours as a freelancer?

 

I assume you mean working for other companies. In that case you can not work more than 50 hours per week in total, so maximum 10 as a freelancer. That is the law for employees and you are an employee 40 hours a week.

If you want to work as a freelancer for your employer, you have the problem Joost pointed out above.

21 augustus 2023 aangepast door UwJurist

[stereo]

2 hours ago, Joost Rietveld said:

Hi Stereo

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Based on your question the number of hours isn't the issue. The issue is that, by Dutch law, if you end an employment and are hired back as a freelancer by the former employer within six months, the employment simply is continued. You will not be considered a freelancer for tax and social security purposes.

Hi, thanks for answering! Probably i wasnt clear on my initial post.

I am going to work as a freelancer with other clients, while at the same time working as an employee in my current role in a company.

2 hours ago, UwJurist said:

I assume you mean working for other companies. In that case you can not work more than 50 hours per week in total, so maximum 10 as a freelancer. That is the law for employees and you are an employee 40 hours a week.

If you want to work as a freelancer for your employer, you have the problem Joost pointed out above.

your assumption is what I meant correct. but I see here the following https://business.gov.nl/regulation/working-conditions-self-employed-professionals/

so why am I restricted to 10 hours as a freelancer since this exception is nowhere to be found?

(I am not doubting your answer, just trying to understand, thank you for taking time to answer in the first place)

[Joost Rietveld]

Ah, that changes things indeed.

 

As an entrepreneur there is no legal limitation to the hours you can work in a week. Perhaps you are working on a visa with limitation in hours? 

[stereo]

15 minutes ago, Joost Rietveld said:

Ah, that changes things indeed.

 

As an entrepreneur there is no legal limitation to the hours you can work in a week. Perhaps you are working on a visa with limitation in hours? 

no, i didnt need visa as european. I am just employed in a company for 40 hours week 9-5

[UwJurist]

It's very simple actually.
There is no law for freelancers restricting the amount of hours. But you are working as an employee for 40 hours. And the law for employees is binding for you as an employee.
This means that your employer can demand this from you. Based on the law and maybe also based on your contract / the law about ancillary / secondary activities.

21 augustus 2023 aangepast door UwJurist
typefoutje

[stereo]

9 minutes ago, UwJurist said:

It's very simple actually.
There is no law for freelancers restricting the amount of hours. But you are working as an employee for 40 hours. And the law for employees is binding for you as an employee.
This means that your employer can demand this from you. Based on the law and maybe also based on your contract / the law about ancillary / secondary activities.

I dont really get you here.

My employers is only worried about the working hours law. They think if I add up their 40 hours  to my freelancing hours I shouldn't exceed the working hours act which is 45-50 hours weekly. But I am not sure if that;s the case, since this limit is not applied to freelancers.

[Pieter__VH]

Imagine you get a burn out because you work too much. Obviously your freelance hours can stop easily, just tell your clients you are sick. But the Dutch law legally binds your employer to pay your salary for 2 years while you are sick. Since most of the people (you probably shouldn’t ask entrepreneurs) think working over 50 hours a week is unhealthy, your boss probably feels it’s a risk to don’t put a cap on your freelance hours. He might have had bad experiences in the past with previous employees or he is just worried that more hours will affect your work on your day to day job. It’s what UwJurist says; since you signed a contact your employer can demand it from you.

[UwJurist]

12 uur geleden, stereo zei:

I dont really get you here.

My employers is only worried about the working hours law. They think if I add up their 40 hours  to my freelancing hours I shouldn't exceed the working hours act which is 45-50 hours weekly. But I am not sure if that;s the case, since this limit is not applied to freelancers.

Sorry to disappoint you. The law is applicable for employees, so for you as well, simply because you are an employee.
It does not matter whether you work the extra hours as an employee or as a freelancer.

And it is not just this rule in the Working Hours Act.

Also applicable might be the DIRECTIVE (EU) 2019/1152 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL and it's implementation in Dutch law about 'nevenwerkzaamheden' (additional working activities).

[Cosara]

1 uur geleden, UwJurist zei:

Sorry to disappoint you. The law is applicable for employees, so for you as well, simply because you are an employee.
It does not matter whether you work the extra hours as an employee or as a freelancer.

I don’t think it’s working that way …

 

Working Hours Act

To whom does it apply?

The Working Hours Act applies to all your employees, including temporary agency staff, ‘payrollers’, secondees and trainees. You can only deviate from the Working Hours Act if an employee is earning more than 3 times the minimum wage per year. The Act does not apply to self-employed professionals, except where the safety of third parties is an issue, such as for self-employed drivers in road transport.

 

DIRECTIVE (EU) 2019/1152 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
29)

An employer should neither prohibit a worker from taking up employment with other employers, outside the work schedule established with that employer, nor subject a worker to adverse treatment for doing so. It should be possible for Member States to lay down conditions for the use of incompatibility restrictions, which are to be understood as restrictions on working for other employers for objective reasons, such as for the protection of the health and safety of workers including by limiting working time, the protection of business confidentiality, the integrity of the public service or the avoidance of conflicts of interests.

 

Nowere is the link made between working hours in paid employment and working hours as a self-employed person.

[Cosara]

3 uur geleden, Pieter__VH zei:

Imagine you get a burn out because you work too much. Obviously your freelance hours can stop easily, just tell your clients you are sick. But the Dutch law legally binds your employer to pay your salary for 2 years while you are sick.

No employer is allowed to forbit you to sport, renovating your home, or driving to work because you may get an injury or accident and be out of work for a long time or forever. 

[UwJurist]

23 minuten geleden, Cosara zei:

I don’t think it’s working that way …

 

Working Hours Act

To whom does it apply?

The Working Hours Act applies to all your employees, including temporary agency staff, ‘payrollers’, secondees and trainees. You can only deviate from the Working Hours Act if an employee is earning more than 3 times the minimum wage per year. The Act does not apply to self-employed professionals, except where the safety of third parties is an issue, such as for self-employed drivers in road transport.

 

DIRECTIVE (EU) 2019/1152 ...
29)

An employer should neither prohibit a worker from taking up employment with other employers, outside the work schedule established with that employer, nor subject a worker to adverse treatment for doing so. .......

 

You make the same mistake in  your thinking as 'Stereo' does, concerning the Working Hours Act. He is not a (semi-)professional, he is an employee that never can be a fulltime freelancer as well.

And the directive clearly states:

An employer should neither prohibit a worker from taking up employment with other employers

Anyway,
I cannot be bothered anymore to spend time on this issue.
I rest my case.

[Cosara]

28 minuten geleden, UwJurist zei:

He is not a (semi-)professional, he is an employee that never can be a fulltime freelancer as well.

Nowhere it's stated that he must be a full-time self-employed person.

It's about time they described the laws more clearly to the practice.

[stereo]

Thank you all for taking time to discuss on my question. As stated initially, this is not something i want to exceed anyways, I was just wondering about what is legally correct here, and as I can see there could be different interpretations.
My company doesn't mind me working even 60 hours per week by the way, their legal compliance is what they are interested in. Thank you again.